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Merita o investitie in cresterea bovinelor


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#61 nina h

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 04:26 PM

Referitor la tema topicului - dupa ce am parcurs aceste articole interesante... as dori sa aflu si parerea Dvs.

#62 Braunvieh

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:19 AM

Referitor la tema topicului - dupa ce am parcurs aceste articole interesante... as dori sa aflu si parerea Dvs.

Daca merita sau nu, e calculabil. Pentru vacile de lapte un link util, din pacate doar in limba germana:

Deckungsbeiträge und Kalkulationsdaten - Milchkuhhaltung

Ai variabile de setat la capitole precum "incasari din lapte", "costuri variabile", si la sfarsit ai rezultatul sub forma diferentzei intre incasri si costuri pe cap vaca.
Matematica pura.
E foarte detaliat, sunt valori statistice definite in functzie de rasa, se ia in calcul si aportul personal in munca si capital.
Cred ca asta e relevant, ce profit anual obtzii pe cap de vaca.

Simplificat, treaba e cam asa: daca o vaca itzi da 6000l pe an si pretzul mediu pe litru e de 0,30 Ct, ai incasari de 1800 Euro.
Daca ai avut cheltuieli variabile de 800 Euro pe an/vaca, ai scos profit 1000 Euro.

Problema care se pune: ca sa ajungi la productzii decente pe cap vaca tre' sa investesti, cel mai probabil prin credit bancar.
Intrebarea e: ce procent din castig ajunge la banca si ce-ti ramane tzie.
Mie mi-e clar: cine mosteneste o ferma cu genetica buna si conditzii naturale prielnice, trebuie sa scoata neaparat profit frumusel.
Cine isi construieste ferma prin capital strain, tre' sa traga catziva ani sa acopere creditul.

Cred ca e clar, in conditziile in care pretzul laptelui nu poate fi influentzat direct de fermier, solutzia e de a minimiza costurile variabile fara a fi amendat prin scaderea productziei.
Un exemplu: in conditziile in care pretzul cerealelor s-a dublat intr-un an, cateva luni pe an(mai->septembrie) redus consumul de furaje concentrate prin pasunat, trebuie sa ai insa pasune de calitate.

#63 Cosmin Popa

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:36 PM

Un utilizator nou, dl Alex B, ne intreaba daca putem sa ii dam niste sfaturi pentru a realiza o investiþie intr-o ferma de vaci prin fonduri europene.

"Orice sfat este binevenit, de la cum e sa fii fermier pana la riscurile imprumutului bancar. La randul meu, va stau la dispozitie cu orice informatie necesara. Numai bine!"

Va rog sa ii raspundeti.

#64 Braunvieh

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:16 PM

Un utilizator nou, dl Alex B, ne intreaba daca putem sa ii dam niste sfaturi pentru a realiza o investiþie intr-o ferma de vaci prin fonduri europene.

"Orice sfat este binevenit, de la cum e sa fii fermier pana la riscurile imprumutului bancar. La randul meu, va stau la dispozitie cu orice informatie necesara. Numai bine!"

Va rog sa ii raspundeti.

Pt. fonduri europene, trebuie un consultant bun.
Pt. imprumut bancar, trebuie garantzii: imobiliare, cash.

In rest, despre investitzii in ferme de vaci lapte s-a mai postat pe forum, informatziile trebuie cautate, nu s-a schimbat mare lucru in ultimii ani.
De exemplu: Cresterea animalelor,un viitor in Romania?

#65 Alex B

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:09 PM

Pt. fonduri europene, trebuie un consultant bun.
Pt. imprumut bancar, trebuie garantzii: imobiliare, cash.

In rest, despre investitzii in ferme de vaci lapte s-a mai postat pe forum, informatziile trebuie cautate, nu s-a schimbat mare lucru in ultimii ani.
De exemplu: Cresterea animalelor,un viitor in Romania?



Ideea e urmatoarea : cu multa munca si determinare se poate,nu? Sunt multe perosanele care vor sa te dea inapoi. Nu stiu daca au de castigat sau nu. dar sunt foarte sceptice in ce priveste fondurile europene si vor sa transmita scepticismul asta si altora. E dezarmant, totusi, si de aceea voiam parerea unor oameni care chiar activeaza in domeniu si cunosc ce e ala un imprumut si cum il platesti din laptele vandut. multumesc!

#66 Braunvieh

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:10 PM

Ideea e urmatoarea : cu multa munca si determinare se poate,nu? Sunt multe perosanele care vor sa te dea inapoi. Nu stiu daca au de castigat sau nu. dar sunt foarte sceptice in ce priveste fondurile europene si vor sa transmita scepticismul asta si altora. E dezarmant, totusi, si de aceea voiam parerea unor oameni care chiar activeaza in domeniu si cunosc ce e ala un imprumut si cum il platesti din laptele vandut. multumesc!

Eu am doua proiecte facute pe fonduri europene.
Un Sapard pt. grajd si un proiect pe masura 312 pt. tractor.
Credite bancare in ambele cazuri.
Fara ipoteci pe imobiliare si 10% contributzie proprie in cash din valoarea totala a proiectului, banca nu mi-a dat credit.

Cat despre rambursare: la dobanzi variabile, nu e predictibil 100% daca potzi sa returnezi ratele.
Acum, dobanda la credit (in RON) o am la 9%. Dar in perioada aia de haos de pe la inceputul lui 2009 urcase pe la 16%.
Atunci a trebuit sa pun bani in ferma din alte activitatzi.
2011 a fost un an bun, ferma si-a platit singura ratele.

Asta cu determinarea e basm.
Itzi trebe dupa parerea mea surse alternative de capital:
1. cand startezi afacerea
2. in perioadele in care "din laptele vandut" nu acoperi toate cheltuielile(inclusiv ratele bancare).

Nimeni (cel putzin din cei care stiu despre ce e vorba) n-o sa se aventureze sa spuna "Da, e rentabil!". In orice domeniu, unii au succes, altzii o dau in bara. Determniarea si munca sunt esentziale. Ma tem insa ca nu sunt si suficiente. Spirit antreprenorial, noroc, conjunctura favorabila, conditzii initziale (ai pamant destul pt. baza de furajare?), etc, etc...

Succes.

#67 Alex B

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:17 PM

Multumesc. un raspuns asa cum asteptam. legat de adapost si animale. Inainte de a merge la un consultant, trebuie sa ma orientez si eu la ce suma ar ajunge costurile. V-am vazut de mai mult timp grajdul prin Sapard, pe forum, si este exact asa cum ar trebui sa fie ca sa incepi o treaba buna. Cu ce efectiv de animale ar trebui inceput, care ar fi costurile. Am citit ceva de 2500 E/ vaca. Din experienta dvs care ar fi costurile si la ce firma as putea sa intreb,orientativ, etc. Multumesc.
P.S. Care a fost costul tractorului? ceve detalii despre pamantul pe care il lucrati si utilaje+tractor, se poate?

#68 Braunvieh

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:40 AM

Eu daca ar fi s-o iau de la capat, as face de 70 de capete. Cred ca as iesi cu 230 k euro la liman fara tehnica de muls.
Daca ar fi si la noi reprezentantze Lely, Boumatic, Delaval, Sac (la distantza rezonabila de ferma) si ar baga si pe piatza noastra asa ceva, as investi direct intr-un robot de muls (cam 120k).
De 50k, in loc sa import cu 2k bucata - as lua junici bune de la ferme serioase autohtone si cred ca in 50 k as iesi cu 40 de bucatzi care sa fie nucleul de inceput.
230 + 120 + 50 = 400k.
Daca reusesti sa obtzii 60% finantzare europeana, contributzia ta la 400k ar fi de 160k. Bani multzi, intrebarea e daca potzi convinge o banca.

Daca n-ai pamant suficient(eu as zice un optim de un ha la o vaca), proprietate sau arendat, potzi s-o lasi balta.
In mecanizare tre' sa mai bagi vreo 80k daca n-ai nimic.
Eu am dat pe un tractor de 100 CP cu incarcator frontal 44k, inclusiv tva:


Posted Image

Acuma, multzi or sa zica, se poate si cu grajduri mai ieftine sau cu mecanizare la mana a 2-a.
Problema e: pierzi oportunitatea asta de a cofinantza tehnica noua prin programe europene, fereastra de timp se inchide in 2013.
Eu mi-am facut de ex. la tractor urmatorul calcul:
Un tractor cu 10-15 ani vechime(peste 80 CP ca sa potzi cara o presa rotunda cu sistem de taiere la deal) cu incarcator frontal n-am gasit sub 10 k sa fie cat de cat ok.
Ori: prin masura 312, cu 70% finantare europeana, la pretz brut de 44k, ceri tva-ul inapoi 8k, 25k primesti de la apdrp, ajungi sa dai pe scula noua 11k plus cheltuielile cu dosarul si consultantza.

Pare grandoman, dar parerea mea e ca avand o ferma de 10 vaci nu potzi sa rezisti pe piatza, vezi fermele astea industriale cu mii de capete de apar acuma pe bani europeni.
Daca te uitzi pe lista proiectelor eligibile pe 121, in ultima vreme apar numai ferme peste ordinul asta de marime.
La 70 vaci lapte cu tehnica moderna faci fatza cu familia, sau daca ai alte afaceri de care te ocupi, ajung 2 angajatzi. In viitor fortza de munca va fi mai scumpa, cei care nu vor avea tehnica si se vor baza pe fortza bratzelor la curatzat grajd, muls, etc. vor avea o problema. Sa intri la dimensiune industriala cred ca e iara o greseala, inafara de fortza de munca se mai pune si problema imaginii pe care o are produsul lapte din astfel de ferme industriale. Consumatorul roman e inca un consumator de inghite orice, treaba o sa se schimbe in viitor.

Daca te pricepi si ai noroc, in vreo 7 ani potzi plati ratele la banca.

Fara capital initzial si pamant suficient nu merita sa incerci.
Asta pt. ca ai vorbit de programe europene. Imi inchipui ca sunt si oameni care, asa cum spui tu, cu determinare si sudoare reusesc sa puna asa ceva pe picioare pornind de la grajdul cu 2 vaci mostenit de la bunici. Eu inca n-am intalnit.

Succes.

#69 Alex B

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:32 PM

E mai mult decat perfect postul precedent si e exact pe limba mea, exact datele pe care le voiam, cu calcule succinte dar la subiect. Sun tintru totul de acord, si inca o data apreciez sfatul primit de la cineva care chiar stie despre ce e vorba. chiar azi am vazut niste video-uri despre robotii de muls si, intr-adevar, sunt foarte folositori. insa, pentru a invata cat mai multe trebuie sa fiu intru totul trasnparent, asa ca ce idei am eu, un tanar la 20 ani, fara experienta in zootehnie, dar dornic sa invat : ferma 40-50 vaci de lapte rasa holstein(cam pretentioase) sau baltata romaneasca ( prefer holstein), 3 angajati, + tractor. La partea de mecanizare, detin un batran U650, pe care nu pun mare baza. Insa, marea problema e pamantul si sper sa nu am vreo falsa impresie. Eu consder ca in prezent, o solutie provizorie ar fi sa cumpar cele necesare(furaje, cereale) intrucat sunt ieftine. Treptat, pe masura maximizarii profitului se poate investi in mecanizare serioasa si in agricultura. Dar consider ca la momntul actual, agricultura romanesca inca asigura furaje si cereale ieftine. Cu cel mai mare drag astept sfaturi si critici legat de ceea ce am comentat mai sus. Numai bine!

P.S. Zetor e si varianta mea pentru un nou tractor. Sunt oarecum fascinat de ce ofera la banii astia. Cum se prezinta tractorul?

#70 Cosmin Popa

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:19 PM

un tanar la 20 ani, fara experienta in zootehnie, dar dornic sa invat : ferma 40-50 vaci de lapte rasa holstein(cam pretentioase) sau baltata romaneasca ( prefer holstein), 3 angajati, + tractor.
o solutie provizorie ar fi sa cumpar cele necesare(furaje, cereale) intrucat sunt ieftine.
Dar consider ca la momntul actual, agricultura romanesca inca asigura furaje si cereale ieftine. Cu cel mai mare drag astept sfaturi si critici legat de ceea ce am comentat mai sus. Numai bine!

P.S. Zetor e si varianta mea pentru un nou tractor. Sunt oarecum fascinat de ce ofera la banii astia. Cum se prezinta tractorul?


Capitalul (teren, utilaje, sau bani lichizi), experienta/stiinta şi munca sunt cei trei piloni majori ai unei afaceri.
Cand nu ai unul dintre ei, vei fi obligat sa platesti profitul celor care iti ofera lucrurile de care ai nevoie. Banca iti ia profitul prin dobanda, oamenii prin salariu iar lipsa de experienta o platesti cu pierderi sau achitand facturi pentru consultatii.

Trebuie sa te gandesti care este contributia ta reala in planul pe care l-ai descris.

#71 Alex B

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:09 PM

Punct ochit, punct lovit. Foarte pertinenta observatia, de care voi tine cont.Multumesc!

#72 Braunvieh

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:27 AM

Daca o sa cumperi furaje, n-o sa-ti fie usor.
Din banii pe lapte tre' sa cumperi mancare la vaci, sa platesti utilitatzi, angajatzi si dobanzi la banci.
Daca reusesti toate astea e deja o performantza, nu cred ca in paralel mai pui ceva deoparte pt. cumparat pamant.
In plus, nu toate se realizeaza concomitent, nu exista un punct t0 de la care se initzializeaza sistemul.
Intai cheltui bani, construiesti ceva, decontezi la apdrp si de la capat. Daca o sa cumperi junici n-o sa intri direct in productzie.
Deci or sa fie luni poate chiar ani (daca prinzi un constructor neserios) in care ai dobanzi de platit la banca si productzie 0.
Nu scriu asta ca sa te descurajez; am vazut insa in ultima vreme mai multzi interesatzi a investi in agricultura (utilizand fonduri europene) cu o viziune idilica, pasunista asupra proiectului: curge lapte, se duce la fabricutza unde se face branzica, gospodinele cumpara la supermarket si euronii se intorc inapoi la "fermier". Un fel de realitate virtuala gen Farmville.

Zetor-ul meu e f. bun, n-am eu utilaje destule cat sa-l pun la treaba serioasa.

Succes.

#73 Alex B

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:32 PM

Multumesc pt sfaturi!

#74 nina h

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:38 PM

Am stat pe ganduri indelung pana am ales topicul unde sa postez acest articol. Acum as intreba "merita o investitie in cresterea bovinelor"? ;) ...sau ne deschidem toti "fabrica (de mãrimea a douã mese de ping-pong)..." care .." poate produce circa 70 de kilograme de carne vegetalã pe orã" ?? :blink:

#75 Cosmin Popa

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:05 PM

Am stat pe ganduri indelung pana am ales topicul unde sa postez acest articol. Acum as intreba "merita o investitie in cresterea bovinelor"? ;) ...sau ne deschidem toti "fabrica (de mărimea a două mese de ping-pong)..." care .." poate produce circa 70 de kilograme de carne vegetală pe oră" ?? :blink:


Pana se vor constata efectele unei asemea schimbari in alimentatie (si asta fara sa pun la indoiala corectitudinea stirii) vor trece multi ani si rezultatele nu sunt intotdeauna favorabile acestor inovatii. Asa se face ca unele companii au avut pierderi mari de exemplu, in incercarea de a comercializa seminte modificate genetic şi chiar au renuntat la unele produse sau piete de desfacere...

Oricum, dacă nu ar mai fi aşa căutate pentru hrană, le-as creşte din pasiune şi pentru frumuseţe...

#76 sturza

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:43 PM

Anul acesta am avut in jur de 20 de vitei de vanzare toti BR, dar nu am fost impresionat de preturile obtinute. Cel mai scump a fost 17 mil.
Voi crescatorii de rase de carne, la ce varsta si greutate ii vindeti ca sa obtineti cel mai bun pret?
Va multumesc.

#77 sturza

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:55 PM

nimeni nimic?

#78 Cosmin Popa

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:56 PM

nimeni nimic?


Salut. La Botosani se plateste 130 lei pe carcasa, daca animalele sunt de calitate. Un fermier pe care il cunosc foarte bine a incasat 45.000 lei pe 8 animale de 13-16 luni. Deci in medie 1100 euro pe cap.

Nu este extraordinar, dar nu consider ca a lucrat in pierdere...

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